"reliable sources." if youiss a program go to itunes on monday and search for releebl sources. join us back here next sunday morning for another critical look at the media. "state of the union" with candy crowley begins right now. politics, policy, and theater. it's state of the union season in washington. today, president obama readies his state of the union message, a chance to lay out details of an aggressive second-term agenda. >> our economy grows when everybody is getting a fair shot and everybody getting a fair shake and everybody playing by the same rules. >> a prequel with republican senator rand paul of kentucky, the tea party response to the president. and then an independent voice in a partisan senate. >> the fifth amendment is pretty clear. no deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process of law. and we're depriving american citizens of their life when we target them with drone attacks.

>> senator an gus king of maine and former bush and obama defense secretary robert gates with the case for drones and the future of u.s. troops in afghanistan. >> i strongly believe 3,000 is too little. and 30,000 is too many. >> then our political panel on the state of the union watching and the new chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. plus, the high price of a penny. i'm candy crowley. and this is "state of the union." joining me from his home state of kentucky, senator rand paul. thanks for joining us this morning. you are going to deliver the tea party response to the president's state of the union. why is that needed? you have an "r" behind your name and so does marco rubio, who will deliver the republican response. >> i think it just shows that there is a movement within the republican party that's been very vocal. i think particularly in the 2010

elections there was a big movement that helped us win elections. a lot of energy that still comes from the tea party and while they consider themselves mostly to be republican, they will occasionally chastise the republican establishment. they want an independent voice. >> is that what you intend to do? to chastise the republican establishment? >> no, but i think really there are some things that i will emphasize that marco doesn't. >> like what? >> doesn't mean we necessarily disagree. >> i don't know. i haven't heard his speech yet. but i would say there are things i will talk about. the president likes to talk about a balanced approach to things. we'll talk about a balanced budget and how that would be good for the economy. the president likes to say everybody needs to pay their fair share, which means he wants to raise taxes. i'll talk about the republican message which is we believe you stimulate the economy by reducing taxes. not revenue neutral. i mean really reducing taxes, cutting corporate tax in half. cutting personal income tax, and

the fact that you sometimes bring in more revenue when you cut tax rates. >>s as you know, you are joined by fellow republicans, some of whom aren't associated with the tea party in your quest for real cuts and not just cuts in the growth. i want to get back to senator rubio, again, because you're both delivering these responses to the president. he was on the cover of "time" magazine as the new face of the republican party. he has tea party support. i wonder, when you look at that and you look at the republican party, do you and he represent different parts of the republican party? are you rivals? who is the face of the republican party right now? >> i don't think anybody gets to choose who the face is or say that you or someone else is the face. i think we do the best to promote what we believe in. one of the things i have talked about, that there aren't a lot of other republicans talking about is that we shouldn't send foreign aid to people who are burning our flag and chanting death to america. i think i represent a wing of

the republican party that doesn't want to send good money after bad to egypt. or to several of these countries. i would put strings on the money to pakistan. i would say to pakistan, you don't get more money until you release the doctor that helps us get bin laden. there are things that distinguish a lot of different republicans. it doesn't make them bad or me right or them wrong. what it means is there is a tea party wing that is interested in not sending money to people who are not acting like our allies. >> does it also give aid and comfort to democrats who see what is clearly a split in the republican party, so much it requires two responses to the state of the union? >> you know, i think to me, i see it as an extra response, i don't see it as divisive. i won't say anything like marco rubio is wrong. i don't always agree, but the thing is, this isn't about he

and i. this is about the tea party, which is a grassroots movement, a real movement with millions of americans that are concerned about some of the deal making that goes on in washington. concerned about the fact that we are borrowing $50,000 a second. none of the things i ran on as part of the tea party have been fixed. we're still going down a hole as far as the debt crisis looming and so we really have to still talk about spending and we want to make sure there is still a voice for that. >> one of the things that is always sort of looked for in the state of the unit address is the fill in the blank question, the state of the union is -- what? what will you say the state of the union is? >> well, i think it's still robust in the sense we still have greatness as a country. but there's a lot of things that beleaguer us, and debt is number one. i think the debt is costing us a million jobs a year. the economy slowed in the last quarter. i really think we have to do something about how enormous government is. and the way tea party folks see

this, is we see it like our family budget. i have to balance my budget at home, why shouldn't government? we don't understand these other explanations and these people -- the president caterwauling about the sequester. so are many republicans. tea party people are saying the sequester is a pittance, just the beginning. $1 trillion and increase spending $9 trillion. even with the sequester, spending goes up 7 trillion or 8 trillion over the next ten years. we're not getting close to scratching the surface of the problem. >> let me ask you about kentucky politics. you have said i believe that you will support senator mitch mcconnell, up for re-election in 2014. do you believe he will face a tea party challenge? >> i think it's unlikely. i haven't heard any republican challenger come forward. i don't know. i haven't heard of any challenger coming forward. >> i want to play for awe an ad that american crossroads karl rove group, republican group, released february 6th.

it's about ashley judd, the actress, and the activist, she was quite active in the president's campaign. she has been mentioned frequently as perhaps a democratic challenge to mitch mcconnell. here's part of that ad. >> ashley judd, an obama following hollywood radical liberal who's right at home in tennessee -- i mean kentucky. >> when you see an ad this far out, from a republican group, it says to me that maybe senator mcconnell, a republican leader in the senate, is in a little trouble. is he at this point looking weak? >> you know, when i heard ashley judd might run for office, i thought maybe it was parliament, since she lives in scotland half of the year. i think part of politics making sure people know who you are running against. ashley judd is a famous actress, an attractive woman, and presents herself well and from

what i understand is articulate, but the thing is, she doesn't really represent kentucky. she was a representative for tennessee last year, she lives in tennessee, so i think you need to make sure people know that. so people don't really think she's from kentucky or lives here. >> a couple questions, we've got some confirmations coming up. we have the liu confirmation for treasury secretary, hagel for defense, as well as brennan for the cia. are you going to vote against any of those men? >> i'm most concerned about brennan. i'm going to demand answers this week. senator wyden asked can they do drone strikes in the united states? and brennan went on talking about optimizing transparency and never answered the question. until i get an answer whether you can kill an american citizen in america, in america, that's what wyden asked, can you kill an american in america with only

the president's word and he never answered the question. i will demand an answer to that question. i think it's very unseemly that a politician gets to decide the death of an american citizen. they should answer about the 16-year-old boy, al alawaki's son that was killed in a separate strike. they've never answered that. >> right. >> i think you should be tried for treason. if you're an american citizen and go overseas and take up arms, i'm probably for executing you, but i would want to hear the evidence, have a judge and jury. it can be fairly swift, but there needs to be a trial for treason, the president, a politician, republican or democrat, should never get to decide someone's death flipping thrash flash -- through flash cards and saying do you want to kill him? i don't know. let's go ahead and kill him. >> a question for john brennan at the cia and yes for the other two? >> i haven't decided really. hagel has been really struggling, so -- >> thanks. we'll check back in with you later. thank you so much, senator rand paul from kentucky, we'll look for you tuesday night.

our next guest is one of two independents in the senate, he has been called a bridge builder and a problem solver. he has questioned both john brennan and chuck hagel during their confirmation hearings. not bad for an office who's only been in office 38 days. an gus king of maine is up next. i feel so alone. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you. you'll never have to. you're always there for me. shh! i'll get you a rental car. i could also use an umbrella. fall in love with progressive's claims service. with the bing it on challenge to show google users what they've been missing on bing. let's bing it on. [fight bell: ding, ding] how many here are google users? what if i was to tell you that you would actually like bing way more than google when it came to the results? prove it. let's look up some taco places. i like the left side. yeah?

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senator, it is very good to see you here in your first couple months up in the u.s. senate. one of the things that as an independent you have talked about is being that bridge between republicans and democrats to try and get some work done up there. with that in mind, i wonder if you would talk to me about what tone you'd like to see the president take on tuesday night at the state of the union. there's been a lot of talk as you know post-election about how he's much more aggressive now, much less willing to deal with republicans. >> well i think he -- the mathematics is he still has to deal with republicans. i mean if you have a republican house, a senate, with a democratic majority. the way the rules work, there is substantial power and a democratic president, as bill clinton would say it's arithmetic and i don't know if you use the word consolatory. you use the word diplomatic. my father used to say you can

disagree without being disagreeable. that's a tone he has to take, confident and strong and yet at the same time being open to other ideas and to compromises and getting the work done. >> how have you felt that he has done toward that end since the election? do you agree with the commentary that the president has been -- seen much less willing to want to deal with republicans. do you agree with that? >> put yourself in his shoes. he came in talking about bipartisanship and working together and all that kind of thing and he didn't really get very far. got zero votes on health care, very few on the stimulus package if any from one or two from republicans, three in the senate. so i think he was a little ready to take a more aggressive stance. he won the election pretty solidly and he feels -- who am i advising the president of the united states? that's like giving ted williams

batting tips. but he -- it seems to me strong, confident, but a strong and confident person also listens and is sure to make compromises when the time comes. the other thing, candy, being around the capitol for a couple of months and you mentioned 38 days, there's sometimes gratuitous i call it name calling, partisanship for partisanship's sake. in my experience, nobody has a monopoly on good ideas, nobody has a monopoly on solutions and the aggressive stuff -- those are bad guys and we are good guys, that doesn't move the ball very far. >> if you were writing the president's speech, how would you describe the state of the union? >> i think i would describe the state of the union as strong and getting stronger. having been through a tough time in american history in terms of two wars, a major recession, but the economy does seem to be

coming back. i think the lowering of gdp and the last quarter was something of an aberration. i think it had something to do with congress' failure to deal entirely with the fiscal cliff issue. but housing is up, manufacturing is showing a little signs of life, so i would say the state of the union is strong, but as always the case, we've got more to do. it's no accident that framers started the constitution using the phrase, "in order to form a more perfect union." >> it can always get better, right? >> there is always room to make -- there's always work to be done. >> i want to move you on to the subject of drones. you were outspoken when you questioned john brennan, the cia nominee, to be director of the cia, particularly about the targeting of americans who may have joined and be deadly terrorists and are still american citizens, by

these drones. you think someone other than just the president and a small group of people should decide who they kill, when it comes to american citizens. i want to talk about that but first read you something from an editorial this morning. it was in the "chicago tribune" in part, it says this. one more layer of oversight reduces the advantages of immediacy and surprise. we don't want drone operators hoping their targeted terrorist will stay on a rooftop in pakistan while a court in washington debates whether it's appropriate to eliminate him. what's your response to that? >> i think that misunderstands what the circumstances are. if you're talking about an immediate strike, that's a commander in chief job and i'm certainly not questioning that, but on the other hand, my understanding is, and this isn't based on classified information, but generally available information, that often these strikes are planned weeks in advance. the moment of the strike may take place because of

intelligence that the person is on a rooftop or wherever they are. but the identification of the individual as a member of a terrorist group, as an imminent threat to the interest of the united states, that's not -- there is some time involved there. and that's what provoked me to ask the question i did of mr. brennan. here is a case -- i don't know how often this will happen. but i agree with rand paul. the fifth amendment says that no person shall denied life, liberty or property without due process of law. it says that clear. it applies to americans. that's what we're talking a about here, americans, not foreigners, even though these are americans that may have committed treason by signing up with another country or another group against us. but i think -- it just makes me uncomfortable that the president, whoever it is, is the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, and the executioner, all rolled into one. so i'm not suggesting something that would slow down response, but where there is time to go

in, submit it to a third party, that is, a court, in confidence, and get a judgment that, yes there is sufficient evidence here, that just feels to me like it's not full compliance with the fifth amendment. there are those that say these people should have a full trial. i don't believe that either. but think some independent check on the executive is healthy for our system. >> final question with less than a minute left. i want to ask about gun control. maine a big hunting territory for so many people, i know you agree with a lot of things that are being suggested there on gun control. are you against an assault weapons ban or for it? >> i would say i'm skeptical. i am leaning against it, simply because what i want to focus on is the functionality, not the looks. and i've seen folks, you can take exactly the same mechanics of a gun and change the stock from a wooden stock to a folding stock and put something on the

barrel, and suddenly it meets the definition of an assault weapon but it doesn't do anything differently. doesn't shoot faster, further or anything else. i think what we need to do is focus on what will really work and to me that's universal background checks and limits on magazine size. >> thanks so much, senator angus king. a conversation that will go on for a while. what's the right number of troops to leave in afghanistan? a conversation with former defense secretary robert gates is next. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. [ clears his throat ] all right that's a fifth-floor she's riprobleok.. me isn't she? not in my house! ha ha ha!

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the white house says that drone strikes even against american citizens are "legal, ethical, and wise." earlier i sat down with robert gates who served as defense secretary for presidents bush and obama and ask if he had concerns about the increased use of stealth fighters. >> i'm a big advocate of drones. when i was the director of central intelligence in the early '90s, i tried to get the air force to partner with us in building drones and they didn't want to because they had no pilot. when i became secretary, i had a little more say over how the air force spent its money and we

significantly ramped up the number of drones. drones are immensely useful in two respects. first of all, for reconnaissance, intelligence, surveillance, because they can dwell over a target for an extended period of time, so you get pattern of life and you can really see what's going on. so they are an immense asset from an intelligence standpoint from a strike standpoint, they are very precise. the same thing in terms of being able to dwell, they can wait until a target is by himself or a facility is abandoned or something if they are going to strike it. if they see people moving into the area, they can hold off, because they can see it all. the people who are driving the -- are driving the drones, so you can -- you can far more easily limit collateral damage with a drone than you can with a bomb, even precision guided munition off an airplane. >> you are not saying innocent

people do not die? >> no, but first i believe the numbers are extremely small, and, second, you have the ability to limit the collateral damage more than with any other weapons system that you have. >> let me ask you about the idea of targeting americans, al alawaki has been the most out there. he is a known terrorist, said hateful violent things against the u.s. he was obviously associated, a big player in al qaeda. he was nonetheless an american citizen, and as we're led to believe how this works, it's the president who okays a kill list and that would include american citizens. should that be a broader authority? >> i think that the idea -- you know, we have this foreign intelligence surveillance court that approves the use of electronic surveillance on american citizens. you have independent person, a federal judge, outside of the

executive branch making a judgment, for electronic surveillance. something similar, whether it's a panel of three judges or one judge. something that would give the american people confidence that -- that there was, in fact, a compelling case to be -- to launch an attack against an american citizen. i think just as an independent of confirmation or affirmation if you will is something worth giving serious consideration to. i think the rules and practices that the obama administration has followed are -- are quite stringent and are not being abused. but who is to say about a future president? and so i think -- i think this idea of being able to execute in

effect an american citizen, no matter how awful, having some third party being -- having a say in it or perhaps some informing the congress or the -- intelligence committees or something like that, i just -- i think some check on the ability of a president to do this has merit as we look to the longer-term future. >> when it became known that the bush administration was using enhanced interrogation techniques on certain folks that had been captured, the outrage was immediate. and yet we have the u.s. targeting an american -- an american citizen and killing an american citizen and we see that the use of drones widely approve

by the american people and there hasn't been much until recently out of congress. why do you -- how do you account in the difference in the reaction? are they entirely separate? is that a curious thing? >> how about politics? >> i'll go for that. and in what way? >> i think by a certain point, virtually nothing president bush did was going to win approval by anybody. and -- and anything he did was condemned from the surge to various other things, and i just think that that certainly plays a part in it. and particularly a lot of our political leaders have no problem talking out of both sides of their mouths when it comes to issues like these. >> what's your biggest concern post 2014 about afghanistan's future? >> i think it's very important

that we maintain some kind of serious residual presence in afghanistan for training of the afghan forces and for counterterrorism. i think that kin of residual presence is absolutely critical. first of all to signal the afghans that we aren't abandoning them as we did after they drove the soviets out in the early '90s or late '80s, but as a message to the taliban or neighbors we're not walking away either. >> you were around for the iraq war and around for much of the war in afghanistan, so i feel like you have a pretty good feel on what enough forces would be. is 3,000 too little? do you have any sense of that? >> i guess the way i would put it just instinctively, i strongly believe 3,000 is too little and 30,000 is too many.

>> somewhere between 3,000 and 30,000? >> finding the goldilocks number. when i say 30,000 is too many, i think first of all in terms of cost for us, but also in terms of the tolerance of the afghans themselves. it's more a political question than it is a military question. >> and finally, we're coming up to the state of the union. you know how this works, everybody wants to hear a certain thing, depending on which department you're in. from the point of view of the military and the world at large and america's place in it, what do you look for when the president gives this speech on tuesday? >> well, it's -- it's hard to say sort of off the top of my head. i think that clearly i would like to hear something about let's figure out a way to avoid the sequestration on the budget, which i think will be catastrophic.

and because so much has already been cut over the next ten years in the military, so i think -- i think something about -- about how we're going to try and get our financial house in order and how we can avoid the sequestration, particularly on the defense side. >> secretary gates, really good to see you again. >> nice to see you again. >> i appreciate your time this morning. >> thank you. up next, the northeast begins digging out from under several feet of snow. an update on this weekend's monster storm, when we come back. and later, new jersey senator bob menendez' troubles seem to be mounting. can he ride out the political storm. waiting for your wrinkle cream to work? clinically proven neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair. it targets fine lines and wrinkles with the fastest retinol formula available. you'll see younger looking skin in just one week. one week? that's just my speed. rapid wrinkle repair.

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time for a check of today's headlines. president obama has just issued an emergency declaration for the state of connecticut. the entire northeast is starting to dig out from up to three feet of snow. at least nine deaths are blamed on the storm that pounded the region this weekend. power crews are working to restore electricity to more than 350,000 people. all major airports have resumed flights after more than 5,000 were canceled because of the blizzard. the search has resumed in california's san bernadino mountains for ex-los angeles cop

christopher dorner. dorner is a suspect in the killing of three people, including a police officer. in a manifesto pe declared war on l.a. police officers and their families because he was fired from the force in 2008. a report commissioned by the family of joe paterno is absorbing the late coach of cover-up allegations in the jerry sandusky child sex abuse case. the report calls the findings of an earlier investigation conducted for penn state, quote, factually wrong, speculative and fundamentally flawed. in a separate letter to the school's former football plays his widow sue said her husband was a moral disciplined man who never twisted the truth to avoid publicity. texas governor rick perry heads to california today, his mission, to convince businesses there to move to his state. perry cites tax policy in texas and limited regulations as reasons to consider the lone star state. "forbes" magazine backs him up

noting the cost of doing business in texas is four points below the national average of doing business in other states. those are your headlines. when we return "the new york times" takes issue with a democratic senate chairman. our political panel is next. 40 delicious progresso soups at 100 calories or less, there are plenty of reasons people are saying "progress-oh!" share your progress-oh! story on facebook. people are saying "progress-oh!" google's backyard for the wbing it on challenge.. [fight bell: ding, ding] what's your preferred search engine? search engine, uhh, probably google. if we do a side by side blind test comparison, and you end up choosing google, you get an xbox. i'll bet you the xbox, you bet me your son. well let's look up what you need. okay, i would do the left. yeah? what?! i am a daddy! bing wins it! bing won. bing did win. people prefer bing over google for the web's top searches. don't believe it? go to bingiton.com and see what you're missing.

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>> i am told and hope that the president is going to pivot to the economy. i was disappointed in the inaugural speech that the number one issue in america right now, jobs and the economy, was hardly mentioned. i think now we've got to talk about the debt, the deficit, getting america's fiscal house in order and create jobs for almost 8% of our population who don't have them. >> congresswoman, a little preview in the retreat where the democrats were. what's your sense of what the president tonally and substantively what we expect from him? >> first of all i think it's going to be very optimistic. i hope the president does talk about the successes of the economy, creating nearly 6 million jobs, the fact that actually des kregs nary spending is at the lowest level since 1976 and that we have reduced the deficit by half. that we need to do.

but he's going to talk about the new initiatives to make the economy work for everybody, investments, growth. >> investments is also spending. therein we immediately see the republican seat. >> when we talk about creating jobs we're talking about deficit reduction, that the least emphasized method of reducing the deficit, we talk about spending, revenue, growth. he wants to emphasize that we need to make investments in infrastructure, in education, in manufacturing, in clean energy and we'll hear about that. >> and the cloud hanging over all of this is the fact that there is this discussion about, in what, two something weeks, the entire budget process could be turned on its head with this so-called sequestration, right? across-the-board cuts and we have the two sides that seem as far apart as ever on this issue. that is going to have a real impact both on the politics of what's going on in washington as well as the economy. >> i was struck by your interview with rand paul, the

sequestration was a pittance. that's a lot of money and you have the defense secretary and john brennan, lots of people saying the sequestration is a threat to the nation's security at this point, and yet rand paul is calling this a pittance, a tea party response to marco rubio. which shows you that the republicans still have this ideological pull against them. there's still the threat of being primaried. it's going to be interesting to see how far they're willing to go in this process. >> on a purely political note, and not policy, what's going to be most interesting to you as you watch this. >> i think it's the fact that the president is going to be speaking directly to the middle class right now. this is what you can hope is going to better your life right now. you know, the -- the issue about the -- the deficit and the debt, we cannot have government fixing its budget problems by making it worse for american families, for senior citizens, businesses, and

that's what austerity does, what sequester does, make it worse. >> i'm going to look at immigration. this is an issue where had the president brought this up a year ago, year and a half ago, would you have seen democrats stand and clap and a lot of republicans sitting down, when he talks about immigration reform, everybody will stand up. >> one of the best things about not being in the senate anymore is not having to sit in that room and either stand up and clap every 15 seconds or sit on your hands for the whole thing. i wish so much we would have a moratorium on standing and let everybody listen like the people outside the country are. >> i love that idea. >> me too. >> but that's the political -- >> before you answer, i want to play something. this was in dr. ben carson. he is a world-renowned pediatric neurosurgeon.

out of johns hopkins. he was at the prayer breakfast and talking about the idea of weaving the bible into some objections he appears to have with the president's approach. take a listen. >> when i pick up my bible, you know what i see? i see the fairest individual in the universe, god, and he's given us a system. it's called tithe. we don't necessarily have to do 10%, but this principal, he didn't say if your crops fail, don't give me any tithe, if your crop is bumper, give me triple tithe. there must be something inherently fair about proportionality. >> this was really interesting number one for the venue, number two, for the person doing this, not -- i mean he may be a political person, first time i've seen him on the national stage. what did you think of that? >> it reminded me of the prayer breakfast i went to when mother teresa was talking and bill and hillary clinton were sitting

there and she was talking about how bad abortion is. it was so uncomfortable in the room watching that, and i'm told that the prayer breakfast with this gentleman was the same. but i think his -- his other point, his main point was political correctness has just gone beyond bizarre, and we have got to come down to reality here and people have to be able to kind of relax and talk about how they want to talk, and, you know, i just thought it was a great message. >> did you find anything offensive with -- certainly it's america, he's entitled to his opinion. a lot of the talk was about was this the right place to do it? and lots of applause from republicans, finally somebody stood up and said it? >> i think there is a political correctness he was trying to use to appeal to a conservative audience. i think it's really not -- not really an appropriate place to

make this kind of political speech. and to invoke god as his support for that kin of point of view, but i think most of all the kind of message that he was giving shows a real empathy gap of where the american people are right now, and i think it's reflective of where many of the republicans and tea parties are right now that we need to have an economy that works for everyone. >> i got to move you all along to something and that is senator menendez. this seems to keep bubbling, just in brief and so many things out there. but in brief, what has been alleged is that the senator did a lot of things at least on the surface that look like they might have been inappropriate. intervening on behalf of a big donor, who also seems to be under investigation. that's the broad brush of it. i want to first play what the senator has said. >> it's amazing to me that anonymous, nameless, faceless

individuals on a website can drive that type of story into the mainstream, but that's what they have done successfully. >> now from "the new york times" saturday, instead of trying to protect mr. menendez, a new jersey democrat, the senate majority leader harry reid needs to remove his gavel pending credible resolution by the senate ethics committee of the swirling accusations of misconduct. is senator menendez in -- in trouble or at least in danger of temporarily losing? he just became the chair of this committee? >> i had a chance to ask harry reid about this at a news conference a couple of weeks ago, and senator reid is giving no indication whatsoever that he is going to take the gavel away, and while senator menendez is right about some of the allegations, some of the others that popped up in the conservative news site, the daily caller, there's been no evidence to corroborate those accusations. the fact that senator menendez

cut a $58,000 check to pay for some -- >> times calling for a democrat to remove a democrat from a committee is fairly noteworthy. >> say new jersey doesn't necessarily have the best track record when it comes to ethics and government and what "the new york times" has seen is people who live in new jersey, which is they're sort of a drip drip drip with the new jersey politician that starts off looking like one thing and turns into a bigger story that obviously was the case with bob toresellly former senator that ended up resigning and what he got from a big, big donor of his. this is where the question is, can the ethics committee dig into the relationship between this big donor and menendez who is also a donor to republicans and also a donor to super pacs, so this goes back to the heart of our issue with electoral politics.

money plays a big part. >> i've got 15 seconds. should senator reid remove temporarily senator menendez? >> i think you have to get to the bottom of it first. i do think he's got to have a chance to stay, look, here's what the facts are and i am going to keep the gavel or there has to be a quick investigation, it can't drag on and on and on. but i think he's had a fair chance. >> i want to thank you for joining us. come back and we'll talk a little more slowly and maybe a little longer. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> last year the u.s. mint made over 6 billion pennies and for more than one cent each. why not ditch it and round to the nearest nickel? find out next. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory

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and finally, a sunday math quiz. if the cost of producing and distributing something is twice as much as you can get for it, why bother? which brings us to making sense of the u.s. penny. last week canada, producing its pennies for much more than their first a value, stopped minting and started melting. former arizona congress man

jim kolbe tried for years to get the u.s. congress to do the same because pennies are expensive to make, virtually worthless to have, and time consuming. >> if you add up the time at every convenience store of fishing out those pennies and making the change in that, you multiply that by the hundreds and tens of hundreds of millions of transactions a year, you're talking about timewise a tremendous amount of savings. >> and as the chairman of the council on economic advisers under george w. bush put it, "when people start leaving a monetary unit at the cash register for the next customer, the unit is too small to be useful." still, the penny remains in play. for starters, there is the arguable contention that everything will cost more because stores will round up their prices. then there are the pro-penny forces, including a penny preservation lobbying group started by a big zinc company. did we mention that pennies are more than 97% zinc? and there's no political push against the penny.

a poll last year funded by the zinc industry showed that even though many americans give away, lose, otherwise ignore penny, 67% want to keep them away. a professor testified in 1990 for the pro-penny lobby. he actually thinks the economic case for getting rid of pennies is stronger now, but he doesn't see it happening under this particular president. >> i can't imagine a former member of congress from illinois is going to lead the way to get rid of the lincoln penny. >> sentimentality aside, abe and his monument are also on the $5 bill, the economic case for a penniless u.s. grows more compelling, giving ex-congressman kolbe hope. >> the polling is very clear that when people find out about the savings they're going to make it's substantial and willing to make that kind of change. >> according to him, not minting pennies would save the u.s. treasury about $45 million a year. and while we're on the subject, switching the paper dollar to a dollar coin would save $178